Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

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béboule
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Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 13:57

Привет всем, у меня есть много вопросов о группе (имеется в виду слова, направлений политики ...). Я напишу на основе ваших ответов.
Спасибо за помощь. Это не легко понять, все, когда вы не владеющие русским языком (это сообщение было переведено Google ...). Я был бы счастлив, чтобы обсудить панк и анархистское движение в современной России. Вы можете написать мне.

Greetings from France

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 19 окт 2011, 14:00

do you speak english?
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 14:08

yes,
did you understand what I wrote or you want me to translate it?

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 19 окт 2011, 14:18

yes, i can understand you, and some other users too.

by the way, i wanted to create a category of the forum for non-russian speaking. And i think this time is coming) So, if you are agree i will transfer your topic to new category.

and of course you can ask that you are interested in!
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 14:31

No problem for me.
see you!

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 19 окт 2011, 14:59

So, now all is ok, and we are waiting for your questions :-):
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 15:12

okay, okay, I didn't notice the topic was already moved...

Well, I rencently discover the band by searching for anarchists musicians in USSR. It's seems that the band is influenced by anarchism according to some songs. However, others songs seems quite tendencious like "Kill the Jews"
I find also some pictures with Skoroded (the band's leader) who wears a "Православие или смерть" t-shirt which, according to the web, is a patriotic and religious group.
How is this group percieved by anarchists in Russia?

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 19 окт 2011, 15:54

The opinion of this group is ambiguous.
For me - this is a rock-group, not anarchist.
And of course not popular by anarchists in Russia, because "Монгол Шуудан" is сommercial project, and we are more attracted by undeground music.
And anarchist band cannot sing songs as "Kill the Jews".

this is my opinion. also i give a quote from an interview with anarchist magazine:
- Do you consider yourself as a ideological anarchists?
- I can not answer unambiguously. What means "ideological anarchists"?

-Why you sang a song "Kill the Jews save Russia"?
-Don't be hypocrisy! I cover the entire During the Civil War, and why i cannot sing if there was that slogan?
It's just historical fact. What is this nation that we can not mention about it?
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 16:21

Allright,
I read that it was performed for a Serguei Bodrov's movie, is it true?
Anyway, there are a lot of references to well-known anarchists (Makhno of course,but Kropotkine, Proudhon...) but in their texts I found nothing about Cronstadt's revolt. Why? Any ideas?

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 19 окт 2011, 16:32

béboule писал(а):I read that it was performed for a Serguei Bodrov's movie, is it true?
Yes, but i think it is an unimportant fact.
béboule писал(а):Anyway, there are a lot of references to well-known anarchists (Makhno of course,but Kropotkine, Proudhon...) but in their texts I found nothing about Cronstadt's revolt. Why? Any ideas?
Kropotkine and Proudhon have died even before the Kronstadt rebellion was.
Makhno at the same time was defeated in Huliaipole. And he was rather practician than theoretician.
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 19 окт 2011, 17:17

So do you know others russian anarcho-rock or punk bands which are worth listen to?
I know "what we feel", but I'm looking for something older or less hardcore...

Any advices for books/movie about past and present anarchist movement in Russia? I read "the unknown revolution" by Voline, but I would like to know what read russian anarchists.
Thanks

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Батарееед
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Батарееед » 20 окт 2011, 01:33

Load
переводи хоть, интересно же.
И про песню "бей жидов, спасай Расею" не забудь написать :men:

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xADIKALONx
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение xADIKALONx » 20 окт 2011, 09:25

Батарееед писал(а):Load
И про песню "бей жидов, спасай Расею" не забудь написать :men:
Так походу напиал уже:
-Why you sang a song "Kill the Jews save Russia"?
http://vk.com/tov_adikalon

...Я обрел анархисткое мировозрени еще до того, как узнал о анархизме (...) РКАС, на мой взгляд, несколько тоталитарен... (с)

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 20 окт 2011, 11:23

béboule писал(а):So do you know others russian anarcho-rock or punk bands which are worth listen to?
it's difficult to say what will you like
so you can use this site http://gnwp.ru/punk - it is a media-library
Under the top menu there is a link "Сортировать по " .. "популярности" that means sort by popular.
béboule писал(а):Any advices for books/movie about past and present anarchist movement in Russia? I read "the unknown revolution" by Voline, but I would like to know what read russian anarchists.
in russian?
are you looking for something concrete?
革命不是請客吃飯

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 20 окт 2011, 11:25

товарищ ищет какие-нибудь российские анархо-панки или просто панк банды, которые ему бы понравились, а я хз даже чо предложить. он слушал вот ви фил, но это слишком громко)
革命不是請客吃飯

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 20 окт 2011, 19:22

hi there,
thanks for the link for music. Do you have anything else? I like punk (and that's what I ask for) but I'm also interested in other styles.

For books, I'm only interested with books I can find in english, I tried to learn russian language some years ago but that's not sufficient...
The period that interests me is the second part of the XXth century and after 1989 to nowadays. For the civil war I can find them on my own.
Someone advices me Vassili Golovanov (but I think he wrote mainly about Makhno), is he a russian anarchist movement specialist? Relevant?

If you have any question about France, let's go. I'll try to make my best.

Bye

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Батарееед
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Батарееед » 20 окт 2011, 23:34


Nickolas Nyort
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Nickolas Nyort » 21 окт 2011, 15:38

As for non-hardcore music, I can advice a punk-band that is called "П.Т.В.П." or "Последние танки в Париже". Unfortunately, the main part of their music is meaning of texts, but texts are only in Russian. I'm not a big fan of punk-music, because in my opinion it's instrumental part, it's sounding and it's composition are too simple (I rather prefer metal, but russian metal is a shit and there are just a few exceptions in this rule). So I can't say that "П.Т.В.П." has an interesting sound, but you may find a translations of this band's lyrics. I can advice also "Гражданская оборона", but the situation is absolutely same (texts are better and more important than music) and, in addition, it used to be an "anarchistic" group, but after that the band leader had said that he is a communist. Further, I can mention about "Lumen". It's not punk at all. It's alternative rock that has social themes, but hasn't themes about anarchism. It sounds much better than the first two bands. Finally, I can advice товарищ Аркадий - guy plays acoustic guitar and songs his own songs about his feelings and about anarchy.

Of course, there are good hardcore formations such as "Ted Kaczynski", "Проверочная линейка" and some others.

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 21 окт 2011, 23:21

@ Батарееед Thanks for the link. I think I'll find what I'm looking for at this site.

@ Nickolas Nyort, thanks for your advices, very useful to make first choices between all these bands.
I totally agreed with the comment "texts are better and more important than music". Often that's the problem for me with anarcho-punk or rap music, those who're making good music are not the best protest-song writers and the reciprocal is true...
That's why I thought Mongol Shuudan was a "perfect band" (talkin' about anarchy with different musical styles), unfortunately they are too much politically ambiguous.
Well, the товарищ Аркадий's album is great. Good voice.
Anything older (80', (early) 90') ?

Cheers!

Load
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Load » 22 окт 2011, 00:11

béboule писал(а):For books, I'm only interested with books I can find in english, I tried to learn russian language some years ago but that's not sufficient...
The period that interests me is the second part of the XXth century and after 1989 to nowadays. For the civil war I can find them on my own.
Someone advices me Vassili Golovanov (but I think he wrote mainly about Makhno), is he a russian anarchist movement specialist? Relevant?
Yes, but he wrote only about Makhno.

Second part of the XXth century is very bad time for russian anarchist movement, because many anarchists were killed during Civil War. Survivors wer killed by Stalin. New birth of anarchist activism was at end of the USSR. Unfortunately, I dont know about english books. And there are a few authors, who wrote about modern anarchist movement. I can recommend this book, but i think it is only in russian :-(
革命不是請客吃飯

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Leeroy
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Leeroy » 22 окт 2011, 09:57

Load писал(а):Second part of the XXth century is very bad time for russian anarchist movement
What can you say about anarchist movements in another countries? I think that it's important to know history of anarchism as world's social movement for freedom.
"Мы взяты в телевизор,
Мы - пристойная вещь,
Нас можно ставить там, нас можно ставить здесь, но
В игре наверняка - что-то не так"

Nickolas Nyort
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Nickolas Nyort » 22 окт 2011, 15:02

béboule писал(а): Anything older (80', (early) 90') ?
You can try to listen "E.S.T."/"Э.С.Т."/"Электросудорожная терапия". It's hard rock. They had been playing music since 1987 until 2009, when vocalist killed himself. They had some songs about Makhno and his movement. For example, "Заря над амбарами" or "Батько, пожалей коней".

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 24 окт 2011, 18:26

Hi everyone,
Thanks for musical links and ideas.
Anyway I found an old interview of MS and it seems that it talks about anarchy. Unforunately, the traduction by google make a big gibberish I can't understand it...
Is there someone who could give the main ideas of the interview? Of course I don't want a complete translation of the whole thing, but could someone tell me what they're saying?
Hanx!

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 24 окт 2011, 18:28

ooops....
here's the link of the interview...
http://www.nneformat.ru/archive/?id=6000
(in the middle of the page)

see you!
Последний раз редактировалось béboule 08 ноя 2011, 21:36, всего редактировалось 1 раз.

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Anti-system
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Anti-system » 24 окт 2011, 23:43

Кранштейн, не Хочешь не слушай, Весна Народов, Crowd Control, Antiglobalizator - good anarcho-punk bands, IMHO

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 05 май 2012, 15:49

I found this:
http://nazi-watch.noblogs.org/post/2012 ... -гавно-ро/

what does that sentence mean?
Этот бэнд, во главе со спившимся вконец Валерой Скородедом, совсем уже берега попутал. Мало того, что Валерка строчит на видео обращение в защиту картавого Дёмы, так еще в своих клипах снимает старых обшников

thanks

Дубовик
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Дубовик » 05 май 2012, 22:14

Well. We have an "Official site of Nestor Makhno" with an administrator Sergey Shvedov, the manager of Mongol Shuudan ( http://www.makhno.ru/ ). I like this anarchist site. You can answering all your questions in it.
Sorry for my english)))))

béboule
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение béboule » 06 май 2012, 12:30

I'll try that soon.
Could you translate the sentence for me?
Thanks for your reply, and don't worry about english, this is the same for me.

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Alcest
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение Alcest » 06 май 2012, 22:55

I'll try to translate it. My translation won't be exact, because Russian original contains a lot of special words (jargon) and a lot of rude phrases.
"This band that is headed (leaded) by totally overdranked Skoroded nowadays is doing something strange and odd. For an instance, Valeriy (Skoroded) made public video-petition in order to support Demushkin (famous Russian ultra-right nationalist). Also in clips of Mongol Shuudan we can see old (workers of one state branch that is similar to KGB)".

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band
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Re: Монгол Шуудан и Франции ...

Сообщение band » 07 май 2012, 09:02

:-) hooking oldest KGB-staff we can also seen in his video
Мы не боимся руин. Мы унаследуем землю, в этом нет ни малейшего сомнения.

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